When is an initiation?

Be warned, as Tony Hadley sings: “Question, questions, give me no answers“.

A while back I unwittingly de-initiated someone from the Golden Dawn. It happened when the gentleman in question, let’s call him Toby, asked to be considered for entry into our Golden Dawn Order as a Zelator rather than Neophyte because he had already received the Neophyte initiation. Now our Order has the rather neat (I think) policy of admitting everyone as a Neophyte; that way we do not make judgements on which other Order’s initiations are “valid”. It also helps create a stronger and more balanced egregore. Anyway, after explaining this policy I was chatting away and asked Toby in which Order he was initiated. He named an online Order and the date and time and other details as to when he had been astrally initiated into the GD. Oh dear.*

Keeping my personal views in check, I began to idly muse and compare his details with what I knew, and stupidly blurted out some facts that showed the initiation could not have taken place as he described. Toby insisted it had, and I only replied that the Order in question had a somewhat dodgy reputation. He suddenly looked very crestfallen. Later that evening, after some net searching and overseas phone calls, he rang me in great distress. The initation had not taken place. He felt duped and deluded (he had described some intense astral experiences during the ‘initiation’). “I thought I was Golden Dawn” Toby  bemoaned sullenly, “but I’m not.” On hearing this, I wished I had kept my big mouth shut.

Now here’s the thing: in his reality Toby had a valid and moving initiation and became part of an august tradition. He was an initiate. He acted as one, served as one and practiced as part of the GD tradition. Being an initiate helped him grow. However, in another reality, that of any objective observer and the cruel wanker who took his money without so much as waving a painted stick over his name, he was never an initiate.

There is no doubt in my mind the objective space-time “truth” in this case was harmful. Toby became depressed, left his magical studies behind and drifted away. I hope he has found some peace now.

So, when is an initiate an initiate? I have elsewhere referred to a Wiccan initiation reported by Margot Adler which was dysfunctional, chaotic and included arguments between the officers in front of the initiate. Yet, Ms Adler describes the new initiate as glowing, content and showing all the signs of those Witches “properly” initiated. So was she now an initiate?

I am pondering these things because of Nick’s recent post on multiple initiations and a few comments stemming from it. Nick avers that properly initiating groups of people into the GD grades is impossible, something I agree with. He also states that a Hierophant performing six or so serial initiations on a single day would be letting the side down somewhat towards the end, something I again agree with. However, different people have different ideas. A Facebook friend of Nick’s puts the high limit of group initiations at three. Interesting. I have asked this commentator to write a paper on how this can be done, and I really hope he does, as me wee small brain cannae see it. I am always keen to learn new ways in the GD.

However, the essential question still remains. If a Hierophant was to initiate six people into a high grade, one after the other, would the poor bastards who drew the last straws be initiated? Even if they had full and wonderful internal experiences, could we say the intiation was not full or valid? If I were to rope together six candidates and initiate them en masse into the Neophyte, would they be initiates? Or would they only be one sixth of an initiate? 🙂

Is the internal experience of the candidate the most important factor? If it is, why do we need to do “proper” initiations at all, since, as in Toby’s case, they can be stimulated by just telling someone they are being initiated. If external factors are important, how do we measure them, ensure quality control (ha ha) without involving some internal perception? I mean we can tell if a newly minted coin is up to scratch cos there are standards by which to judge. Judging initiation, not magical skill, seems to me fraught with peril and possible bias.

However, I cannot honestly say that if our Order suddenly changed its procedures and accepted people at higher grades I would be happy. I could not easily accept someone wandering into Practicus based, as we have seen in the case of Toby, on possible astral initiations. And if someone told me they had been made Practicus together with four other folk, all at once, I’d probably start making Marg Simpson dissaproving moans. And honestly, if someone wandered in cheerfully announcing they were a Practicus via self initiation or an Adept by following the advice in Modern Magick, I would be somewhat of a sad panda too.

So where does this leave me, where does it leave us? Do we only trust our own views and ideas on initiation? Or should we be happy so long as someone, like Toby, knows they have been initiated? It fairly does my head in, it does. Thoughts anyone? Thanks 🙂

*As readers of MOTO will know I remain to be convinced astral GD initiations are at all possible. I’ve publicly asked one of the more prominent expontents of astral initiation to address my concerns, but have never recieved a public answer, only an invitation for one on one dialogue, something I do not wish to do. That aside, this is my personal view – our Order has no official stance on the matter, only that we do not do them.



  1. Nick Farrell · January 4, 2012

    I asked a lot of people about their astral initiation experiences and it confirmed to me that nothing was happening, certainly not on the level that was being claimed. The closest was one person who saw two pyramids… other than that the rest of them might as well been watching big brother for all the symbolism and magic they picked up from the process. After a 0=0 the candidate can hardly walk or talk, some of them feel sick for a few hours afterwards, others feel like they have done three rounds with Mike Tyson. Few feel all fluffy bunnies (like a couple were after their astral initiation).
    I believe that Astral Initiation is possible but the initiator and the candidate have to be high enough level to do it to themselves.
    The fact this character believed that his initiation to be valid and could not accept that it wasn’t and did not want a real one speaks volumes about who he is and where he was going. Thinking that you are an initiate is not a matter of belief any more than thinking your are Napoleon makes it so. The world is full of untrained people calling themselves 7=4, it does not make them so, nor is it healthy for us (or them) to believe it.
    If your Zelator believes in illusion so much at this part of the journey, he will not survive the next part and basically needs his delusions shattered so he can go on. The fact that he needed his illusion so much that he stopped his spiritual journey. Anyone who turned down a real initiation because they believed that sending a cheque to a group who may not have even done anything gave him a spiritual experience is never going to see the real treasures when they are before them. Anyway on a practical level the bloke sounds too unstable to take on magical work. Besides if his initiation was so brilliant why didn’t he stay and get more of them.
    As far as the tops being three… that is the number of candidates on Heirophant can handle in a day. I think that is about right although on a Good day with the Inner willing I can manage four without the last one growing extra limbs. But the next week I will probably have flu.

  2. dirkt · January 4, 2012

    >> Is the internal experience of the candidate the most important factor? If it is, why do we need to do “proper” initiations at all, since, as in Toby’s case, they can be stimulated by just telling someone they are being initiated. If external factors are important, how do we measure them, ensure quality control (ha ha) without involving some internal perception? I mean we can tell if a newly minted coin is up to scratch cos there are standards by which to judge. Judging initiation, not magical skill, seems to me fraught with peril and possible bias. <<

    Now… you're cutting to the point 🙂

    The internal experience of the candidate IS the most important factor, because (as with all experiences), there is nothing besides that internal experience we can speak of, in a reasonable way. The only difference between an (so called) "astral" initiation and a physical one ist, that in the latter you can better shape (and control to a degree) this subjective internal experience to your (or the tradition's) needs by means of a theatrical performence, while in the former one, you've no control whatsoever over what the imagination of the initiate will come up with. While the "astral initiation" experience may be quite valid for the candidate himself, the difficulties of "astral" initiations into a tradition, which requires the tuning in of the candidates mind/experience to a specific set of symbols and values will be quite obvious from this POV, as should be the difficulty of accepting people into higher grades, when they come from another order/tradition (be their initiation "astral" or physical).

    For clarification: I don't believe in the "astral" as some kind of objective extra dimension, that allows for some kind of magical telepathy to happen. For me, it's simply the subjective "dimension" of mind, of imagination, thought/speech and emotions (which also has a collective aspect, that becomes possible through the use of shared symbols, language and art) and as all subjective experience takes place in this "dimension of mind", the borders between "subjective/objective" get a bit blurry here anyway, one could say 😉

    However… even with physical initiations, their impact depends on the quality of your performance/setting and on the ability/mood of the candidate, to tune into your performance at that specific moment in space/time.

    As for group initiations (on a physical level) or the limit of initiations, an initiator can perform on one day… that's for me quite obvious. A dramatic ritual is not performed for a passive audiance, but requires the active involvement of the initiant. Ye more active participants (candidates) you have, ye more difficult it will become for you and your team to react to the specific needs of a singe participant and in that case, the singular experience you want to convey, may not come across the best way possible. As for the number of initiations… this is demanding work. I don't know how much performances of a single show per day are done in the professional theatrical world, but I guess no more than two or three. After that, any actor will be burned out for the day and performing yet another show could easily turn everyones expectations down.


  3. Tabatha · January 4, 2012

    I enjoyed your post. There is certainly nothing wrong with anyone starting over again from Neophyte at any point in their spiritual development. After all, the idea is to keep the ego in check, not validate its personal bias. Additionally, we have always preferred initiations to be done one-at-a-time, so the officers can devote their full attention, intention, and energy to the process and the individual.

  4. Samuel · January 5, 2012

    I am going to have to agree with Peregrin and Nick here in regards to “astral initiation”. I do not think what is passed off as “astral initiation” actually works on all 5 levels of the person who is being initiated, or on all 5 levels of the Temple or Order into which they are being initiated. Most of those claiming “astral initiation” are merely deluding themselves.

    Like Nick I do believe that real astral initiation is possible, but only for people who are already of an extremely high level of self-awareness and practice. In other words, high level adepti can indeed astrally initiate each other.

    I am a firm believer that it is also possible to initiate more than one person during an initiation. This of course does not mean that they are all roped together and recieve the initiation simultaneously – they would each go through separately. Now is it possible for a Hierophant to have the same focus on Candidate #3 as on Candidate #1? I think it is possible, but it is up to the knowledge and experise of the Hierophant in question. Also whether or not there are Adepti sitting on the Dais, and how well trained the Officers (particularly the Middle Pillar Officers) are. How well the Hierophant and other Officers are connected to their group Egregore and to the GD current also helps. These are a lot of variables which have to be taken into consideration. And of course no two Hierophants are the same exactly, so perhaps some Hierophants could do more than three Candidates in the course of a day.

    That being said, I have personally initiated people into the Golden Dawn. I have certain things which happen to me, including feeling like I am recovering from a hangover for about 3 days afterwards. I have also done up to 3 initiations in a day. Felt like I was recovering from the worst flu I have ever had for the next week.

    The question is this, did the third person recieve an initiation in which I put three people through. In our case, yes. And how do we know this? Simple, certain symbols appeared in the Sphere of Sensation of each of them. They all had similar experiences following the set of Initiations, etc.

    Now, let me be clear here. These three Candidates were not put through three separate initiations, but rather all went through the same Ceremony. I am not certain that any Hierophant and Officer team worth their salt can put a single person through Neophyte, Zelator, and Theoricus in a single day, nor do I think they should as each grade’s energies should be experienced by the Candidate and fully integrated into the Sphere of Sensation through the appropriate grade work. Doing something like putting a Candidate through three consecutive initiations in one day would be a disservice to the Candidate, and certainly to the tradition itself, in my opinion.

    Just my two centavos.

    In LVX,

  5. Samuel · January 5, 2012

    As for starting over from Neophyte again when going to another group, temple, or Order. I think this is absolutely necessary.

    The reasons fro this are multifold, but suffice it to say that the primary reason is not that their previous initiation or initiations are invalid, but rather that they are on connected to the egregore of the new initiating group, temple, or Order. This has the advantage of creating a stronger group egregore.

    Additionally from a practical point of view, this also ensures that the “newly initiated” member does the same Curriculum Work as the rest of the group, temple, or Order members. We know that no two GD Orders have exactly the same curriculum nor do they have exactly the same practical work for their Initiates. This can and does cause problems for both the Praemonstrator/Demonstrator of a Temple as they have to unlearn former training and learn new training, which can be in conflict at times.

    As Tabatha so clearly points out, this going through the grades again also helps to keep “the ego in check” and hopefully makes a more balanced Initiate overall. This is extremely important for the Initiate and certainly for the tradition itself.

    Again, just my two centavos.

    In LVX,

  6. Peregrin · January 6, 2012

    HI Nick,

    yes you are probably right about ‘Toby’ not being suitable for depth spirituality and magic – then, I hope he is sometime in the future. My saddness lies in the fact that people like him are taken advantage of. If he was never encouraged to think of himself as an initiate, then when we did meet I perhaps could have helped guide him, not cause immense cognitive dissonance and pain. This is why I think discussions such as these, and on your blogs etc, about astral and remote initiation etc are really important. If we can promote a community where people are encouraged to study and start their own study group, leading to a working group, perhaps to an Order, perhaps to linking with some larger Order or boyf (MOAA ? 🙂 – this is a better and healthier way than promoting flashy astral initiations for $$$. Thanks for your comments, as usual you make me think 🙂

  7. Peregrin · January 6, 2012

    Dirk – excellent points and exellently put.

    I am really glad you clarified your view on “the astral”, as otherwise, like so many times people start questioning and thinking things based on wrong information.

    Naturally, you are correct in saying there is only an internal experience. However, I do think since the GD initiations were designed for phsyicality, and some of the important parts are done physicially, the control a phsyical initiation has to produce an inner experience for the initiate is beyond anything an astral initiation can do. As Nick says in these discussions, only those very advanced, both initiate and initiator could do this – and this is certainly not in the realm of GD temple initiations.

    Your explanations of all this though need to be serious thouhgt about by all GD folk, I think. Thanks 🙂

  8. Peregrin · January 6, 2012

    Thanks for your comments, Samuel.

    I would love very much to continue this discussion with some very specific questions re the intiating process. I would like to do this in public, here or another venue, so everyone can benefit from it. I am very open to hearing from you and your experience and open to having my mind changed.

    Would you be up for this? If so, let us know. I suggest we at least start with the Neophyte, so there is some measure of uniformity and each of us has access to some redaction of the Z Docs.

    Thanks 🙂

  9. dirkt · January 6, 2012

    Hi Peregrin.

    Yes. I wholeheartedly agree with you re physical initiations. From my POV, an “astral” initiation would amount (in the best case scenario) to just another form of self initiation by means of an (more or less guided) imaginative journey, which is hardly the way to go for a beginner. In the worst case scenario, the (would be) initiate will pay a lot of bucks for just getting told, he is now initiated by means of some metaphysical mumbo jumbo.

    The problem (from my POV) with the modern GD tradition/community is, that there seems to be severe lack of sceptical thinking and education involved. In the east, there was some kind of a shift in the understanding of “magic”, when indigenous shamanistic beliefs and practices fused with Hindu and Buddhist logic, philosophy and psychological based meditation practices. From attempting to control the external natural environment by means of shamanistic/magical ritual practices, the focus of this practices changed to controling and transforming the internal scape of he human mind by means of ritual, metaphor and narrative. The result was Hindu/Buddhist Tantra. While this shift happened gradually and began more than a millenium ago in the east, it came to frutation in the west only in the 19th century, when religion & romanticism clashed with rationalism and an evolving scientific worldview, making a new synthesis necessary.
    However, unlike in the east, where such a development had a relatively brought support in the established contemporary religous and phiosophical mainstream, in the west this evolving “western tantra” dwindled rapidly back into obscurity in the first half of the 20th century, due to the lack of such support. Mainstream Christinaity is more focused on faith, than on meditative practices and the evolving sciences rejected it as superstition anyway, as it was seen as an affront to all its newly found insights.

    The result is somewhat dissatisfying. Much metaphysical mumbo jumbo & actual superstition has since then made its way back into western esotericism and subsequently into the expectations of its adherence. When the word “science” becomes involved, instead of a genuine scientific critical approach to the subject and further exploration and development of the psychological techniques of self transformation involved in light of all the new insights we gained since the 19th century, it often means just drifting even more into pseudo-scientific BS (e.g. quantum fabulation etc.), or is missused for “proving” some utterly fantastic and (at least for the western tradition) irrelevant claims of lineage and antiquity or even more fantastic (and more irrelevant) claims to “secret” teachings, that nearly always seem involve the age old delusions of personal immortality and grandeur…. and of course some kind of sexual activity.

    This is no way to go for the emerging tradition. To tell it frankly, if it isn’t countered in some way, the GD tradition WILL vanish into smoke and never be heard of again within a few decades, as Regardie wished and this would be a sad thing. But what’s the best way to handle this problem?
    I think, it’s time to close the “damnable books of romance” (as Bob Wilson puts it), by getting rid of the metaphysical mumbo jumbo in the traditions teachings and also getting rid all the “inter confessional” drama and then rather concentrate on the essentials.
    Don’t bother with the realms of the unknown, with God, the immortal soul, higher plains of existence, life after death, the meaning of life and so on, as all of this this just speculation and will confuse the heck out of most people. As there is no evidence for all this stuff, it will only open the door to constant infighting, as anyone can claim what he likes about the nature of those things. State it clear and simple: “We don’t know about that stuff and it isn’t relevant to our work! So don’t take our gods, angels, demons, plains, models of the soul/universe etc. literally, they are just metaphores and means to an end!”
    Don’t bother with deluded people and their organisations, that claim knowledge about those things or make claims about secret teachings and fantastic abilties. Sharlatans come and go and they will always sell there gold bricks to the uneducated. Fighting them directly or arguing with them on the internet is a waste of time, as the next sharlatan will readily take their place, once one of them is put out of business. The only thing arguing with those people will lead to, is to prolong their inevitable fall. Ignore them and they and their constant flaiming will dwindle away soon enough.

    Instead, educate people in critical thinking. Train them to use their brains, to take nothing at face value and to always question, so that they become able to distiguish for themselves, what is a usefull technique and what is BS. Help them to get the “plush” out of there heads concerning magic/mysticism and educate them about what it is really about: the exploration and transformation of human consciousness/nature via “skillfull means”, not to “become more than human” or to get on a first name basis with God or to find out why the friggin universe was created, but rather to become a healthy, bright, skillful and humane being that deserves to be called “human” in the first place and is able to cope with the hardships of life and to live in peace with his fellow human beings. That’s more than enough work for anyone to accomplish in one lifetime.

    The more educated and informed people will get about these things, the less likely they are to fall prone to astral initation rackets and the like.

  10. Samuel · January 7, 2012

    @ Peregrin,

    I would love to continue the discussion, Peregrin, in relation to the initiation process. I think here on MOTO is just as good a place to hold the discussion as any other.

    I agree that we should probably use something like the Z1 & Z3 for the Neophyte as a discussion point. Since most people have access to the published versions by Regardie, we can use those as a base, though I am just as comfortable to draw on the unpublished versions from such places as Whare Ra (SM), Thoth-Hermes (AO) in New York, and of course Isis-Urania (original GD). Funny though, all the unpublished versions I have seen are nearly verbatim – the single most common change to them is merely the name of the Order to which the document belongs. Everything else is the same.

    To be fair though, there are differences between the unpublished and the published versions, which I think mostly has to do with editing rather than Regardie himself. This is especially true of the versions in the New Falcon “The Complete System of Golden Dawn Magic”, wherein Hyatt (owner of New Falcon at the time) and/or his editors mucked around with the documents as they were edited.

    As for changing your mind, I am not trying to change anyone’s mind or point of view. What I shared were my experiences in performance of initiations. Some things are commonalities that I have learned seem to be in the system itself, such as the feeling like you are recovering from a drunk or hangover the next couple of days afterwards. This I have gathered from several folks who are or have been Hierophants doing actual initiations (at least in successful initiations).

    I think it great to be able to share information and experiences, and these sorts of discussions help the Fraternity of the GD Community as well as actually share information and ideas. Besides, your experiences with your group are helpful to us as well as they help us expand our own understanding of the actions, workings, and material that goes into a GD Ceremony.

    Looking forward to the discussion. I am sure that others like Nick will chime in as well, which will be helpful to GD Community as a whole as experiences and information are shared through the discussion.

    In LVX,

  11. Samuel · January 7, 2012


    Your point about critical thinking is a very important one. It is valuable to cultivate this skill in general, but it is essential, in my opinion, for anyone in the esoteric fields of practice. It is not just in the GD, but in most esoteric and occult areas of practice that critical thinking is not employed.

    I think that the quality of the group depends perhaps on how much they encourage critical thinking. There are certainly GD and esoteric groups out there that not encourage critical thinking from their members. These perhaps are the more “public and vocal” in some cases in their respected “traditions”, but I think that you will find that there are groups within those selfsame traditions that are more quiet in the public that actually are doing the Work – these groups in my experience, are the ones that encourage more critical thinking from their members, and in the course of time have longevity as their members are able to contribute to the corpus of the group’s work and generally expand on earlier teachings within their “Tradition”.

    In LVX,

  12. Linda Cohagan · January 15, 2012

    I hope Toby has recovered. The topic of bogus initiation is rarely mentioned. I recently discovered my generic initiaion into Briitish Traditional Wicca was not valid and I was deeply injured on many levels by this revelation. My “initiators”, well known Elders who should have known better, disillusioned me terribly. I’m still wrestling over the question of whether my true initiation took place with the Gods regardless of the validity in the eyes of other BTW’s. Thanks for explooring this issue and the best to Toby’s mental and spiritual health.

    Ashe Isadora

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  15. Keith Maguire · November 14, 2012

    I’ve seen some online groups offering astral initiation but I never trusted it. I’ve never experienced a Golden Dawn initiation. There is no temple close to me. As for self initiation, I have had experiences that have convinced me that self initiation is something that is possible. I also don’t believe that the experience of self initiation and that of being initiated in a fully active Golden Dawn temple will resemble each other very much only because I feel that the process of self initiation is just that, a process, where as, from information I’ve read by people describing their initiations, those from an active temple seem to be more intense and sudden.
    I don’t think that one is initiated simply because they believe it. If other people’s egos are in any way similar to mine, then I admit that it is easy for an ego to believe something that it really wants to believe, regardless of any evidence that may prove the contrary.
    That being said if an individual is open, and willing to maintain as much as possible a sense of objectivity and an honest willingness, then maybe the process of self initiation may produce the results in one’s life that would be produced in an individual who has experienced initiation in an active temple.
    I suppose it is the results that “prove” an initiation has happened?
    I recall Dion Fortune writing about initiations happening astrally before and/or after the actual physical initiation. I also recall, though I may be wrong, her mentioning that the astral initiation can occur, at times, a significant period of time after the physical one.
    When I was 29 years old I experienced, what I feel, was an initiation after performing the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram for the first time. I feel it was an initiation because my life was changed significantly afterwards. I mean it when I say that. The changes went so far as to be physical. I didn’t grow an extra nose or anything. I experienced a healing event that altered me to such a degree that I was able to discontinue a medication I was taking daily and was told I would have to for the rest of my life. Does that mean I was initiated into the Golden Dawn current because I was using a Golden Dawn ritual? (Let me say here that I don’t mean to make light of the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram in any way. I feel that the LBRP is a rare example of a nearly perfect ritual that is actually extremely profound and is a key in it’s own right.)
    Anyways I learned the ritual from Herbie Brennen’s book “Magic for Beginners.” I had been interested in metaphysical topics for a very long time but I finally decided, for whatever reason, to actually do something about it. I bought the book from a bookstore in Cleveland Ohio. I remember holding Israel Regardie’s “The Golden Dawn” in one hand and the “Magic for Beginners” in the other. The Golden Dawn looked way, way, to complicated for me. So I bought Mr. Brennen’s book. Needless to say, after experiencing the LBRP, I bought The Golden Dawn soon afterwards.
    I’ve always wanted to experience initiation in a Golden Dawn temple, one where they did the work there as described in the Z documents. I’ve experienced some group work, but nothing that came close to the depth of the work as described in those documents. It seemed that the expectations of the officers was very high. The attention and dedication that is required to perform the initiation rituals as was written, to me, is more then what I’ve seen in my limited experience with group work from a ritual standpoint.
    Initiation, to me, is a difficult thing to pin down. Speaking specifically of the GD initiation, there is a system that was set up in a specific way to achieve that goal. In a broader sense, initiation, to begin, to start the Great Work seems to have many avenues. I feel that the GD system is similar to Reiki in that the Reiki attunements work a specific way. There are 3, and I have received my 3rd attunement. Traditionally that is referred to as the master level. Forgive the short rant here, but just because an individual attends a Reiki weekend seminar and gets all three attunements that does NOT make them a master! Goodness, I’ve seen a lot of that happen and people tell you, with a straight face that they’re a Reiki master. I’ve had my 3rd attunement since 2006 and I can tell you I am no more a master than I am president of the United States.
    Moving on, the Reiki system allows that an individual who has their 3rd attunement can pass attunements to others, i.e. initiate that person into the Reiki energy thereby allowing that person to do Reiki. I’ve passed only a few attunements. I don’t do that very often at all. If I do it’s because I really, genuinely, moved to do. I’ve attuned both my wife and daughter. Both were interested in Reiki, my daughter for five years before I was able to pass attunements. Before the passing of the attunement, neither of them could actually do Reiki. Believe me my daughter tried. Afterward they could immediately do it. It was the same for me. The attunement process is a lot like an initiation in the Z documents in that there is so much going on through visualizations, etc, by the person passing the attunement, while the person receiving the attunement is quietly sitting there as you work.
    I imagine that the GD initiation is the same way. One can become initiated into the Great Work in a number of different ways, but one can be initiated into the Golden Dawn system in the way(s) that the system allows. I still wonder about self initiation though…

  16. rozee · November 23, 2012

    initiation through non-material ritual?…..most of the time, even the attendant personality is only vaguely aware of what the over soul is up to.

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